dagScold: "Taxation is not thievery"
anticapitalist:
christiankeyes:
When something is stolen from you, you never get it back. That’s theft.
Theft is not a thing taken that you never get back. That’s not theft.
Someone takes your iPod out of your car one night and you never see it again. You iPod was stolen and you are a victim of petty thievery.
Wait. You’re not going to compare taxed income to a stolen object are you?
When you are taxed, money is forcefully taken from you.
I don’t like the libertarian claim that taxation is theft, but this comparison doesn’t work.
First, you don’t know what theft really is. Second, you haven’t thought about what the word force means in either example. Third, I buy an iPod. Then I take it with me and leave it places. It’s a thing that I can hold. I play with it. I can share it. I can lose it. I know it’s in my bag when my bag is closed. I can unzip my bag and feel around for it. I know when I’ve grabbed it. I don’t mistake my iPod for my pen, a book, my chapstick. Your income is not an object that you can identify and understand in this way. It’s value is not the same kind of value the iPod has. Not even remotely related. You cannot compare them in this manner.
After all, you don’t purchase taxation. And the government doesn’t steal taxes. Taxes aren’t a product. Taxation is not an object. Stop thinking about everything as an economic good or service. We do, in fact, live in a social system that defines social goods and services as distinct from economic goods and services, no matter what capitalists like to believe.
But do not call it theft. That is an extreme reduction fallacy made classic by right libertarians.
Well, even progressive libertarians like to refer to taxation as a kind of theft.
Anticapitalist:
The way you put it, you are being forced to buy a product.
Correct. But taxation is not a process of payment for goods. In this representation it would be a payment for services, which is still not a good representation of taxation at all. It’s not like you’re sitting at a restaurant paying for food and your tip is a kind of tax that you can choose to offer or not. And because the government forces you tip at 20% and you’d like to tip at 10%, then the government is coercing you. This childish view of services and taxation should not be tolerated.
We can discuss whether taxation is fair and just, but we’ve got to insist on talking about taxes and taxation. These analogies are weak. Always weak.
While that is not thievery, per say, it’s still shit.
However, you can justify it as being rent. You exist on state regulated/owned land, and thus you should pay rent.
(Assuming private property/rent is valid, which it isn’t. But from the capitalist perspective, tax is just a rent charged by the owners of america)
This is not true at all. Taxes are not “rent charged by the owner of America.” The plutocrats don’t collect taxes, the government does. The government doesn’t own “America”, whatever that is.
Do you drive on the Interstate? That’s one good example of a service that is not a rent, nor owned by the government. I’m a veteran. When in the US, I go to the local VA hospital to receive medical care and medication. What is that? It’s not a rent, it’s not a stolen good, it’s not owned property.
In addition, we don’t own money. We don’t own value.
I’m getting all worked up. This mindless discussion is giving me hives. I’m going to go enjoy Dec 31st in Korea.
Boys. ANALOGIES SUCK. If you want to talk about taxes, taxation, and the services and goods taxation affords, the value of taxes and taxation, talk about those things themselves. Stop talking about shit that ain’t taxes and taxation.
I know I’m scolding, but you deserve it.
